BEV vs REX

[Srivenkat]

Hi All,

I am seriously looking at the i3 now that we need an additional car. The BEV would fit our needs for a city car, but aside from the range anxiety, the REX seems to offer the advantage of being able to use the car in town at slower speeds, should the battery life fall, say to a 10 mile range, well out of warranty in 10 years or so. I am wondering if the additional maintenance costs for the REX would be offset by this latter advantage (of being able to use the car with extremely limited battery range). I am wondering what are the annual maintenance costs, in USD for the ReX that folks are seeing?

Also, could we expect BMW or a third party to offer a replacement battery for a reasonable price?

Thanks in advance.

 

[alohart]

I would be more concerned about expensive repairs of the REx system than I would about extreme battery pack degradation. Why bother with the weight, maintenance, etc., of a REx if you really don't need it?

I expect 3rd-party battery pack modules to be available after the first battery pack warranties begin to expire in significant numbers in 2024, but only if their costs are low enough compared with the used value of 10+ year old i3's to make economic sense. This has been true for early hybrids, but their battery packs are much smaller and thus less expensive.

 

[Srivenkat]

Thanks for the suggestion. I am also wondering what the typical maintenance costs are for the BEV (apart from Tires). How frequently the brake fluid needs to be replaced. Any other maintenance items?

In regard to tires, I see the BEV has different sized tires for the front and back. Did earlier BEVs have the same size tires for the front as for the back but it has changed for latter BEVs? For the 2017 BEV, can the tires be rotated side to side or are they directional?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Srivenkat]

Also, for Snow tires, tirerack lists only one size (155/70R19 84Q) while for all-seasons, the rear tire size is different (175/60R19 86Q). Does one use the same tire on both fron/back for the snow tires?

 

[alohart]

I am also wondering what the typical maintenance costs are for the BEV (apart from Tires). How frequently the brake fluid needs to be replaced. Any other maintenance items?

BMW recommends replacing brake fluid every 2 years. Compared with other cars, this seems overly frequent. Now that our free maintenance plan has expired on our 2014 BEV, I will investigate brake fluid testing to determine whether the water content is high enough to justify replacement.

The cabin air filter needs to be replaced periodically. On our first 2-year scheduled maintenance appointment, our BMW dealer replaced the cabin air filter. However, on our second 2-year scheduled maintenance appointment, our dealer told us that they no longer replace the cabin air filter every 2 years. I will investigate examining our cabin filter every couple of years to determine whether it needs replacing.

Because all of our scheduled maintenance was covered in our free maintenance plan, I don't know what maintenance would cost. It would be minimal compared with a typical ICE vehicle. However, I would either do the simple maintenance tasks myself or consider an independent BMW mechanic rather than paying top dollar to a dealer.

In regard to tires, I see the BEV has different sized tires for the front and back. Did earlier BEVs have the same size tires for the front as for the back but it has changed for latter BEVs? For the 2017 BEV, can the tires be rotated side to side or are they directional?

Only BEV's with pizza slice wheels, type 427 wheels included with early Mega World trim, had the same size wheels and tires front and rear. All BEV's with the 3 other wheel styles had wider rear tires and wheels. I don't know whether later BEV's with 427 wheels have the same size wheels and tires front and rear.

No i3 tires are directional, so they can be rotated side to side. However, the tires do have a marked outside surface, so they could be mounted on a wheel incorrectly.

 

[gt1]

I went from REX to BEV, and one thing I realized only after the purchase was that the battery and related parts warranty for the BEV in CARB states is shorter. CARB requires 10y 150k miles warranty for PHEVs, but not for BEVs. I still think that the BEV is a better choice. i3 is a city car, not well suited for travel. It is a perfect second car and a lousy first one. It doesn't need a 200 mile range. The longer warranty doesn't justify hauling around the expensive, heavy and not very reliable REX.

 

[jadnashuanh]

BMW warrants the battery to hold at least 70% after 8-years (no mileage limitation). I don't think age will be a major problem unless your needs are near maximum when new. What does affect all BEVs, or any car with batteries, is the range loss while it is cold out. Throw that on top of battery degradation, and it might become an issue. My needs are only for 20-miles or so on any given day, and my original BEV is more than up to the task, regardless of the outside temperature.

 

[Anonymous]

It is a perfect second car and a lousy first one.

For us it is our perfect only car.
We seldom have a need to 'road-trip', and in those rare instances, we would just rent an ICE - whole lot cheaper than even the insurance cost on a 2nd car.

 

[AndrewDebbie]

How frequently the brake fluid needs to be replaced.

Brake fluid flush should be every two years. If you plan to keep the car a long time, this is very good idea. I've had a few older BMWs. Bad things happen if you don't keep up with the brake fluid changes.

 

[AndrewDebbie]

Also, for Snow tires, tirerack lists only one size (155/70R19 84Q) while for all-seasons, the rear tire size is different (175/60R19 86Q). Does one use the same tire on both fron/back for the snow tires?

Yes. BMW sell sets of rims with with winter tires.

 

[Srivenkat]

Thanks for the info. Tirerack shows one size for both the front and rear (155/70R19) for 19" BEVs earlier to 2017 and also the 60Ah 2017 BEV, but 175/60R19 is shown for the rear on 2017 94Ah BEV. Did BMW go with a different size for the rear because of the heavier battery or if there's an error with Tirerack listing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[alohart]

Tirerack shows one size for both the front and rear (155/70R19) for 19" BEVs earlier to 2017 and also the 60Ah 2017 BEV, but 175/60R19 is shown for the rear on 2017 94Ah BEV. Did BMW go with a different size for the rear because of the heavier battery or if there's an error with Tirerack listing.

The Tirerack listing for 60 Ah BEV's is incomplete (see my previous post). Our 2014 BEV with the Giga World's standard 19" 429 wheels has wider rear wheels and tires. I don't know the standard wheel sizes on 94 Ah and 120 Ah BEV's.

 

[jadnashuanh]

I've not seen wider winter tires offered for the i3 except possibly for the i3s performance model. FWIW, narrower winter tires generally handle snow better than wider ones which tend to float more versus cutting through.

When I priced them, a set from BMW was cheaper than what I could get from TireRack when you ensure the package contains the TPMS required in the USA.

 

[sipabit]

Don't count on a replacement battery being available. With the discount off used i3's, no one would really buy it. I believe the cost of a battery is about $2k per cell and there are 8 sells if I remember correctly. Scratch the whole idea out of your head. It's not a Prius that you can get a new battery replaced for under $3k for all the cells.

Depending on your mileage, the tires will be at a cost of roughly $150/tire including installation.
Oil change is $99 where I'm at and it's once a year-ish.

That's about it.

Know that your range will deteriorate over time. So if you can get by with a BEV, realize that range won't be that full over the length of the car. This may or may not matter depending on how long you plan to keep it (in terms of miles).

 

[alohart]

Don't count on a replacement battery being available. With the discount off used i3's, no one would really buy it. I believe the cost of a battery is about $2k per cell and there are 8 sells if I remember correctly. Scratch the whole idea out of your head.

With 150k i3's sold so far, I expect 3rd-party battery modules to be available after 2022 when early i3 battery pack warranties begin to expire in larger numbers. New battery cells should be available to 3rd-party battery module rebuilders for a reasonable price. We'll have to wait to see what happens.

 

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

It is a perfect second car and a lousy first one.

For us it is our perfect only car.
We seldom have a need to 'road-trip', and in those rare instances, we would just rent an ICE - whole lot cheaper than even the insurance cost on a 2nd car.

Same.

Personal car ownership is expensive and inefficient. If it were up to me, I'd even sell the i3 and rely solely on public transport, rideshares, bikeshares, Zipcar, running, and car rentals for the occasional long-distance trips. But my wife seems to think I'm too extreme . A fully loaded used i3 BEV for less than 19k seemed like a reasonable compromise.

 

[Srivenkat]

Thanks all for your responses. Are there any coolants (such as for the inverter and the REx) involved and if so, any change intervals for those?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Srivenkat]

I've not seen wider winter tires offered for the i3 except possibly for the i3s performance model. FWIW, narrower winter tires generally handle snow better than wider ones which tend to float more versus cutting through.

When I priced them, a set from BMW was cheaper than what I could get from TireRack when you ensure the package contains the TPMS required in the USA.

Thanks. Can the TPMS be programmed into the car by the user? Also, is it a onetime thing (i.e., can the system store 8 TPMS codes) or performed everytime the wheels are swapped?

 

[sipabit]

Don't count on a replacement battery being available. With the discount off used i3's, no one would really buy it. I believe the cost of a battery is about $2k per cell and there are 8 sells if I remember correctly. Scratch the whole idea out of your head.

With 150k i3's sold so far, I expect 3rd-party battery modules to be available after 2022 when early i3 battery pack warranties begin to expire in larger numbers. New battery cells should be available to 3rd-party battery module rebuilders for a reasonable price. We'll have to wait to see what happens.

Hopeful, but unfortunately that won't happen. You have to remember the value of low range electric vehicles decline in a big way unless people start to turn around realizing that they really don't drive 250mi a day and wouldn't want to charge that much nightly anyway. People aren't open to educating themselves enough for the mentality to swing in the direction of valuing low range vehicles.

No matter how far the battery prices drop, it will never come down to a point where it would be worth replacing an old battery. We're seeing 2014 BEV i3's with 40k miles go for $11,500. If I wanted LEDs, it would be more worth it for me to buy a whole new car than to try to retrofit my Value Package i3 with halogens.