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I generally agree with that. Used BMW i3's are a great deal. It is amazing how much people are still paying for new base (no options) BMW i3's in Colorado. Not MSRP of course. Market price is only $3k less than MSRP here. Most folks don't want a tiny dorky box with low EV range for $42k...

Great post! Yes, we engineers are concerned about cost, due to obvious MBA-degreed marketing-types running around most companies. It matters. And composites can be more expensive. The way BMW was doing it, they DID manage to make money on the i3, partly due to efficient manufacturing, but...

They aren't that different. For somebody who wants a cool EV, & they only want to (or can) spend up to $38k, 90% of people would pick the Tesla, no doubt. From a sales & market-capture standpoint, the Tesla Model 3 EV took over the EV market, mostly to blame for the huge BMW i3 sales drop...

Passenger Volume is almost the same between an i3 and a Mini Cooper EV (84 vs. 80 ft3). I'd bet that last missing 4 ft3 is all taken from the back seat, like you mention. Still, lots of people on a budget will like the $25k "Mini" price tag after fed rebate. If you can't afford an i3 & still...

Yet, a BMW Mini Cooper EV weighs about the same as an i3. The Mini EV doesn't use composites. Also, a Chevy Bolt is a bigger (volume) car than an i3, yet doesn't weigh much more than an i3, even though the Bolt has a ~1,000 lb belly battery.

MKH thanks for the translation above. Great insight there. For all the good attributes the i3 has, it was obsolete the day the Tesla Model 3 arrived (2017), at least in North America. A Model 3 costs about the same without federal help, as an i3 minus $7,500 federal. Even BMW's own Mini...

BMW built it's brand name on smooth engines & great handling. In this new world of EVs, I don't see them competing well any more. Other brands are spanking their teutonic rears. ... They should be hoping CO2 & H2O can be converted to HxCx (fuel) using nuclear power plants, wind energy, & solar...

There's not much difference in the safety level of the BMW i3 vs. the heavier Bolt. ............Add mass to the BMW i3 to equal the size & battery mass (with ancillary structure for the new 960 lb battery), and the crash tests may begin to degrade a bit for the i3. The i3 could be beefed up to...

Very true. Yes, that is why the IIHS actually weighs their vehicles they crash test, and doesn't just trust the marketing dept. at BMW. :roll: Your 2014 was 2,880 lbs, confirmed, not the mythical 2,600 lbs, and a 2017-21 weighs about 2,920, all from actual calibrated weighing from non-BMW...

Since the Bolt takes 7,000 lbs more force (to displace 5"), it's safer in rollover accidents. Junkyard surveys aren't accurate. Accidents vary. The first "skateboard" was in 2001 by GM. Tesla copied the concept with prototypes in 2010, production in 2012. BMW's after that...

When talking CFRP applications like bicycles or cars, as mentioned already in this thread, tension along the fibers is what CFRP is best at. .... Bike frames do not have collision requirements as semi-monocoque car bodies do, which need high shear & compressive energy absorption, attributes...

True for mass produced vehicles. Carbon fiber hit Formula 1 & aerospace & a few other areas in about 1981, so it's a 40 year old technology. I remember seeing it explode in popularity in the early 80's at McDonnell-Douglas (F-18, AV-8B, etc.) and in research at my university. The BMW i3...

CFRP is brittle, not ductile like steel. CFRP is amazingly strong for it's mass, yet only in tension loading, not in compression. I'd say the poor strength-to-weight performance of the i3 is due to: 1. Lack of an attached genuine B pillar. The thick rear suicide door pillar helps, although...

You're not adjusting for the 4% larger Bolt, among other things. To compare vehicles that are somewhat close to each other like this to start with, you still have to add 4% mass to a BMW i3. So, 2,920 lbs x 1.04 = 3,037 lbs for the new larger BMW i3 to match the Bolt's external dimensions &...

The Bolt is bigger, both inside & out, compared to an i3. That 4% difference counts. Then, the extra structure (bracing) needed in the i3 to carry a bigger battery like Bolt has (960 lb brick vs. 613 lbs) requires extra mass. Build in a B-pillar on the i3, and now the BMW i3 is as heavy as a...

No B-pillar, that's it. That's what's going on here. If BMW built that in, the i3 would get better side impact and roof strength. Still would just equal a Bolt though. B-pillars do add mass. Back to square one. Also, carbon fiber really only works well when loaded in tension, not...

Maybe view it another way. Take a Bolt & remove the battery. That's 3,563 - 960 lbs = 2,603 lbs. Take an i3 & do the same: 2,920 lbs (IIHS.org's weighed value) - 613 lbs (Torqeedo) = 2,307 lbs To be fair, as mentioned above, the Bolt is 4% bigger than an i3, 2307 × 1.04 = 2,399 lbs They're...

OK, my mass numbers might be off. I'll take another look at it. Car and Driver reviewd a 2014 BMW i3 years ago when it was all new, smaller battery, etc., and said: "BMW calls its skateboard the Drive Module, and fashions it almost entirely from aluminum. The framework surrounding the...

A person could just leave it alone, yes. Don't change it. Checking for leaks once in a while is important though. I've heard of these reduction gears in other EVs with high mileage getting worn down to the point where they rattle (after 100,000 miles or so), and others have reported nasty...

Wow, interesting. Service Manual would have that info. Best hope there's no leaking, got to check for that once in a while. When I was looking at a Sandy Munro teardown document, it showed what appeared to be a fill level plug. Must have been an early model, first model year & most of '15...